Identification Service IDS 1500 - 1599 |
# |
OBVERSE click thumbnail |
REVERSE click thumbnail |
Finder & Location |
IDS
1500 |
|
ФАБРИКА
(factory) Ф.ЛУДВИГА
(F.Ludviga) въ РИГѢ
(in Riga) |
 |
blank |
product unknown |
eBay Latvia
|
IDS 1500 ФАБРИКА Ф.ЛУДВИГА въ РИГѢ is the FACTORY of
F.LUDVIGA ( Patriarch Founder at Head Office ) in RIGA |
IDS
1501 |
 |
ЛД = LD A.H.CAHИHЬ (A.N.SANIN) H5 |
 |
NP IS12H 1796
|
5
post (flax) |
Val Shearer Fife, Scotland |
IDS
1502 |
|
САHKT ПEТЕРБУРГ ПТ:
SANKT PETERBURG PORT
17*98 Ю Russian Arms T
symbol of a ship's hull or key |
 |
The reverse usually
has the double headed Russian State
Arms. When blank there is a Ю
symbol on the obverse ., a small
Russian State Arms Symbol, and a T is tax.
|
John Los
Amsterdam |
IDS
1 503 |
|
+
Crossed Keys 1 |
 |
blank |
Riga
(1st Grade flax) |
George Fludder Penwortham Preston, Lancashire
|
IDS 1504 |
 |
quartered + shield with
1/1/1/1 pellets |
 |
12K
GH |
Baltic States (Krown flax) |
Wayne Kitching Knaresborough |
IDS 1505 |
 |
quartered + shield with
1/1/1/1 pellets |
 |
12K
GH |
Baltic States (Krown flax) |
Wayne Kitching Knaresborough |
IDS
1506 |
 |
ЛД = LD
K.ЗAИЦOBЪ
(K.ZAITSOV)
H47 |
 |
NP BCI 9K 1800
(+ symbol)
|
47
post (flax) |
Wayne Kitching Knaresborough |
IDS
1507 |
 |
ЛД = LD
C.TИMOФEEB
S.TIMOFEEV
H34 |
 |
NP
PB12H
1790 |
34
post (flax)
|
eBay Ruthin North Wales |
IDS
1508 |
 |
ЛД = LD
T.ШELЬKOBЬ
(T.SHEL'KOV)
H51 |
 |
NP
CБ12H
17 90 |
51
post (flax)
|
eBay Ruthin North Wales |
IDS 1509 |
 |
ЛД = LD
Я.KOЗЛOBЬ
(Ya.KOZLOV) H58
|
 |
NP
BCI12K
1796 |
58
post (flax) |
eBay Ruthin North Wales |
IDS
1510 |
 |
ЛД = LD И.ПЛOTHИK: (I.PLOTNIKOV) H69 |
 |
NP PB12K 179? |
69 post (flax) |
eBay Ruthin North Wales |
IDS
1511 |
 |
ЛД = LD
(possibly Polikarpov) H?? |
 |
NP H?12H 1762
|
??
post (flax) |
Wayne Kitching Knaresborough |
IDS
1512 |
 |
N29 |
 |
WK??9MP
1760 |
29
post
(flax) |
Colchester |
IDS
1513 |
 |
ПД = PD Л.НЕЛЮБОВ (L.NELYUBOV)
N38 |
 |
SPB НШRH
1814 |
N38
post
(Hemp) |
Colchester |
IDS
1514 |
 |
ЛД = LD
И.BИHOKУPOBЬ
(I.VINOKUROV)
H58 |
 |
NP
?? 12H
1813
|
58
post (flax) |
Colchester |
IDS 1515 |
 |
quartered + shield with
6/6/-/- pellets |
 |
CR 12K |
Baltic
States
(Krown flax) |
Jim Solas Kirkcaldy, Fife |
IDS
1516 |
 |
ЛД
= LD
П.ДABIЬДOBЬ
(P.DAVYDOV)
H17 |
 |
NP
?? ???
(1814 - 1826)
|
17
post (flax) |
Graham Rawson PAS West Yorkshire (SWYOR-A9D352) |
IDS
1517 |
 |
ЛД = LD
C.ЗAИЦOBЬ
(S.ZAITSOV) H19
|
 |
NP ??9H 1803 |
19 post (flax) |
Gavin Barnett Montrose
Scotland |
IDS
1518 |
 |
ЛД = LD
A.ПOEДABШ :
(A.POEDAVSHIN)
H33 |
 |
NP
AK9H
1818
|
33
post (flax) |
Gavin Barnett Montrose
Scotland |
IDS
1519 |
 |
APX БP
ДЕСЯТCK ФЕДОРЪ
/ ????КИН (FEDOR ???KIN) |
 |
АРХ:ПOР
ПАКЛЯ / ЧЕСКА
3. СОРТЪ
Я.К 1889
|
Archangel Port
PAKLYA CHESKA
3rd
SORT
(flax)
Ya.K 1889
|
Gavin Barnett Montrose
Scotland |
IDS1519
Archangel Bracked by inspector FEDOR ???KIN in Archangel Port as 3rd Sort
PAKLYA CHESKA from owner YaK in 1889. ПAKЛЯ = PAKLYA
is Scutching Tow, the
short broken fiber of flax, hemp, or jute used for yarn, twine, or
stuffing, in this case flax.
ЧESKA = CHESKA is
the lowest grade heckled flax / ПAKЛЯ
ЧECKA
is heckled CODILLA the broken flax from the first
heckling.
|
IDS
1520 |
 |
ЛД = LD
E.ДEMЯHOBЬ
(E.DEMYANOV)
H70 |
 |
CПБ
HoП.1
Д.X.
1831
|
70
post (flax) |
Johnny Rod Jensen North Jutland
Denmark |
IDS
1521 |
 |
ПД = PD Ф.ДОЛГОВЪ (F.DOLGOV)
H11 |
 |
SPB
AБRH
1810 |
11
post
(Rein Hemp) |
Stralsund Feldmart Germany |
IDS
1522 |
 |
ЛД = LD
E.САРЫНИН (E.SARYNIN) H15 |
 |
NP
АШ12К
1799
|
15
post (Krown flax) |
Louise Nugent Wexford
Ireland |
IDS 1523 |
 |
ЛД = LD BA:ПИPOЖHI (VA.PIROZHNIKOV)
H2
|
 |
NP
BCI12H
1796 |
2
post (flax) |
eBay Ruthin North Wales |
IDS 1524 |
 |
ЛД = LD
Г.HИKИФOPOB
(G.NIKIFOROV) H71
|
 |
NP
BCI12H
1795 |
71
post (flax) |
eBay Ruthin North Wales |
IDS 1525 |
 |
ЛД = LD И.ВИННИКОВ
(I.VINNIKOV)
H20
|
 |
NP
AШ12K
179? |
20
post (flax) |
eBay Ruthin North Wales |
IDS 1526 |
 |
ЛД = LD И.ВИННИКОВ
(I.VINNIKOV)
H20
|
 |
NP
FW12H
1813 |
20
post (flax) |
N E Fife
247 CUPMS 2005.282 |
IDS 1527 |
 |
ЛД = LD
А.ЧЕЛПАНОB (A.CHELPANOV) H54
|
 |
NP
MM9H
1799 |
54
post (flax) |
N E Fife
96 CUPMS 1999.53.29 |
IDS 1528 |
 |
ЛД = LD
A.HACУXИHЬ
(A.NASUKHIN)
H95
|
 |
NP
ICБ12H
1821 |
95
post (flax) |
N E Fife
205 AMu01 |
IDS 1529 |
 |
ЛД = LD
Я.ЗAИЦOBЬ
(Ya.ZAITSOV) H17
|
 |
NP
AK12H
1806 |
17
post (flax) |
N E Fife
236 CUPMS
1999.216.2 |
IDS 1530 |
 |
1803 (eye)
С.ПЕТЕРБУРГ.Т (ST.PETERSBURG.T) T=ТАМОЖЕННАЯ
(TAX) |
 |
blank |
Customs Seal

|
Paul Cannon Auction House
Russia |
IDS 1531 |
 |
ЛД = LD T.ПPИMAKИ
(T.PRIMAKI) H21 |
 |
NP
PB12K 1796 |
21
post (flax) |
eBay Ruthin North Wales |
IDS 1532 |
 |
ЛД = LD Ф.ЧЕГОДАЕ
(F.CHEGODAE) H63 |
 |
NP
ФK12H 1797 |
63
post (flax) |
eBay Ruthin North Wales |
IDS 1533 |
 |
ЛД = LD distorted |
 |
NP
LIW12H 1794 (anchor) |
??
post (flax) |
Ste Hickling Mold Wales |
IDS 1534 |
 |
HIELLE & DITTRICH double headed eagle ZYRARDOW |
 |
ГИЛЛЕ & ДИРРИХЪ double headed eagle ЖИРАРДОВЪ |
eBay Poland |
IDS 1535 |
 |
АП = AP
(Archangel Port) ДЕСЯЦК
ГС (G.S) |
 |
APX
ПAK.БPAK 2
ЕП
P 1836 |
Archangel
PAK.BRAK 2
EP
grade
(hemp) 1836 |
N E Fife
34 CUPMS
1999.52.17 |
IDS 1535 Archangel Port inspector ГС / Archangel 1836
Paklya
Bracked (Codilla) 2nd grade Scutching Tow |
IDS
1536 |
 |
ЛД = LD
B.ЩOГOЛEB
(V.SHCHOGOLEV)
H64 |
 |
NP
AK12H
1787
|
64
post (flax) |
Martin Head
Kirby Lonsdale
|
IDS 1537 |
 |
АП = AP (Archangel Port)
ДЕСЯЦКC
(Inspected by)
TЗ (TZ) |
 |
APX
ПAK.БPAK 2
AP
Py 1837 |
Archangel
PAK.BRAK 2
AR ruki
(picked hemp) 1837 |
N E Fife
32 CUPMS:1999.52.15
|
IDS
1538 |
 |
APX.
Б
P
ДЕСЯТ/ЬHИKЪ
MИXAИЛA
ЛEПИX(ИH)
(MIKHAILA LEPIKHIN) |
 |
APX.
Б
P
KRONЪ
3.COPTЪ E.П 1853 |
ARKH. BR
KRON 3rd SORT (flax)
E.P 1853 |
David Simmonds
Scotland |
IDS 1539 |
 |
ЛД = LD
B :ЗAИЦOBЪ
(V.ZAITSOV)
H9 |
 |
NP
BCI 12K 1799 |
9
post (flax) |
eBay Ruthin North Wales |
IDS 1540 |
 |
ЛД = LD
A :CИMOHOB
(A.SIMONOV)
H 55 |
 |
NP
CF12H
(1775-1800) |
55
post (flax) |
PAS NLM-25D3F0 North Lincolnshire Museum |
IDS 1541 |
 |
ЛД = LD
Я.КУЧКОВЬ (Ya.KUCHKOV) H62 |
 |
NP
?? 12H 1797 |
62
post (flax) |
eBay Ruthin North Wales |
IDS 1542 |
 |
quartered + shield with
5/5/-/- pellets |
 |
І.Ж
12 |
Baltic
States
(flax) |
Martin Head Carnforth
Lancashire |
IDS 1543 |
 |
ЛД = LD
C.COЛOУXИ
(S.SOLOUKHI)
H45 |
 |
NP
CH12H
1827 |
45
post
(flax) |
Alistair Milne Elphinstone Near Edinburgh |
IDS
1544 |
 |
N
50 |
 |
WK AN9PK 1759
|
50 post (flax) |
Suzanne Carr Shropshire
WK Wilma Krown PK Picked Krown |
IDS
1545 |
 |
ЛД = LD
C.ДEMЬЯHOB
(S.DEM'YANOV)
H1 |
|
NP
AP12H 1794
|
1
post (flax) |
Brian Mcleod Lindores Newburgh, Fife |
IDS
1546 |
 |
АРХАНГЕЛ ОГОПОРТА
(ARCHANGEL PORT)
crossed anchor/grapnel
1795
anchor symbol for sea port |
no photo |
blank |
 |
Found by Linnet (James T. Britten)
bagseals.org |
IDS
1547 |
 |
??? ПОРТ ??? (port) crossed anchor/grapnel 1799
(city port not known)
Saltire X cross symbol
|
 |
blank |
 |
Found by Carl losue Long Island New York |
IDS
1548 |
 |
САНКТ ПЕТЕРБУРГ ПТ SANKT PETERBURG
PТ.
Saint Petersburg Port
Crossed Anchor/Grapnel |
 |
blank |
blank (flax) |
Portable
Antiquities Scheme
LVPL - 356303
Selby, Lincolnshire |
IDS
1549 |
 |
??????????
crossed anchor/grapnel
(city port not known)
|
 |
blank |
|
Found by Goretex
Northern England bagseal.org |
IDS
1550 |
 |
ЛД = LD
?????????
H??? |
|
NP
??12H 1763
|
??
post (flax) |
Michelle King Cheshire |
IDS
1551 |
 |
ПД = PD ?.КАЛТУШК: (?.KALTUSHKIN)
H259 |
 |
SPB
Г Г RH
1798 |
259
post
(Rein Hemp) |
Portable Antiquities Scheme BH-246888 Gravely |
IDS
1552 |
 |
ПД = PD ?.СЕДОВЪ (?.SEDOV)
H311 |
 |
SPB ISRH
1808 |
311
post
(Rein Hemp) |
Portable Antiquities Scheme
DSCN6652 |
IDS
1553 |
 |
ПД = PD Т.БОЛОШЕВ (T.BOLOSHEV)
H49 |
 |
SPB BKRH
1793 |
49
post
(Rein Hemp) |
Portable Antiquities Scheme
LANCUM 596F7A Cumbria |
IDS
1554
|
 |
Д.A = DA
MECHИKOB
(MESNIKOV) H:60 |
 |
CПБ
CTЛ.3
I.H
1831
|
60
post (flax) |
Graham Smart
Abernethy Perthshire |
IDS 1555 |
 |
АРХ.ПOPT
(Archangel Port)
ДECЯTH
(inspector)
ВАСИЛІИ КОЗЫРЕВ (VACILII KOZYREV) |
 |
APX. БP ЗАБРАК
1 РУКИ (Grade) H.C. 1895 |
Archangel Bracked ZABRACK 1
RUKI
(Hemp)
H.C.
1895 |
Brian McLeod Inchbare Scotland |
IDS
1556 |
 |
ЛД = LD И.ВИННИКОВ
(I.VINNIKOV)
H20 |
|
NP
KK9H 1800
key/fish symbol |
20
post (flax) |
Brian McLeod Inchbare Scotland |
IDS 1557 |
 |
No: 1 |
 |
WK
SB9AO 1757 |
WK
Wilma Krown
1 post (flax) |
PAS
LANCUM-E87454
AO is
Clean Select
|
IDS 1558 |
 |
(ЛД = LD )
missing
ДЕМИ / ДЕМИ mistrike
(DEMI ????)
H4 |
 |
NP
IБ12H 1794 |
4
post (flax) |
eBay Ruthin North Wales |
IDS
1559 |
 |
ЛД = LD
Г.TAPAБУKИHЬ
(G.TARABUKIN)
H4 |
 |
NP
IБ12H
1804 |
4
post (flax) |
eBay Ruthin North Wales
|
IDS
1560 |
 |
ЛД = LD
С.ВОРОБЬЕВЪ (S.VOROB'EV)
H16 |
 |
NP
CF12Н
1795
|
16
post
(flax) |
eBay Ruthin North Wales
|
IDS 1561 |
 |
ДECЯTH
(inspector)
ФЕД.БАХЛАНОВЪ (FEDOR.BAKHLANOV) |
 |
APX. БP ЗАБРАКЪ
ФР 1853 |
Archangel Bracked
ZABRACK
(Hemp)
F.R
1853 |
Gavin Barnett
Montrose Scotland |
IDS
1562 |
 |
ЛД = LD
И.СИНЯКОВЪ (I.SINYAKOV)
H?? |
 |
NP
-H12Н
1816
|
16
post
(flax) |
John Armstrong Ebchester Durham
|
IDS
1563 |
 |
ЛД = LD
Н.ВОРОБЬЕ(B) (N.VOREB'EV)
H55 |
 |
NP
EH12K
1788
|
55
post
(flax) |
Guy Hilton East Yorkshire
|
IDS
1564 |
 |
ЛД = LD
Т.ВИНОКУРОВ (T.VINOKUROV)
H58 |
 |
CПБ
HoП.2
I.C.
1835
|
58
post
(flax) |
David Simmonds
Scotland
|
IDS
1 565 |
|
X
Crossed Keys 3 |
 |
blank |
Riga
(3rd Grade flax) |
Maria Sjoquist Norrkoping Sweden |
IDS
1566 |
 |
ЛД = LD
Т.ТОМІЛИНЪ
(T.TOMILIN) H29 |
 |
NP
LIW12(H)
1795
|
29 post
(flax) |
Portable Antiquities Scheme WAW E5EB54
Dover |
IDS
1567 |
 |
ЛД = LD
С.ЗАИЦОВЪ
(S.ZAITSOV) H19 |
 |
NP
BCI 12H
1795
+
(cross)
|
19 post
(flax) |
Portable Antiquities Scheme
YORM-FF2660
York |
IDS
1568 |
 |
ПІ (PI)
P1
1st Pick
or Ш (Sh) |
 |
У |
U |
Portable Antiquities Scheme
NLM-242293
Lincolnshire |
IDS
156 9 |
 |
ЛД = LD
Г.ФУФАЕВЪ
(G.FUFAEV) H6 |
 |
NP
AG12H
1819
|
6 post
(flax) |
Portable Antiquities Scheme
LANCUM-AA51DC
Urswick, Cumbria |
IDS
1570 |
 |
ЛД = LD
В.ЩОГОЛЕВ
(V.SHCHOGOLEV) H64 |
 |
NP
PB12K
1792
|
64 post
(flax) |
Portable Antiquities Scheme
WAW-OA6ACC
Wyre Forest |
IDS
1571 |
 |
ДЗ =
DZ
АРПШЕВЪ (ARPSHEV)
H116 |
 |
NP
ПC12H
1783
|
116
post
(flax) |
eBay
Devon
|
IDS
1572 |
 |
ЛД = LD
П.ШИЛOBЬ
(P.SHILOV)
H97 |
 |
NP
СБ12H
1828 |
97
post (flax) |
David Simmonds
Scotland
|
IDS 1573 |
 |
quartered + shield with
-/-/-/- pellets |
 |
G.H
12K |
Baltic
States
(Krown flax) |
eBay Nelson
Lancashire |
IDS 1574 |
 |
Concordia Mills Leeds |
 |
1 |

Concordia Mills |
eBay
UK |
IDS
1575 |
 |
ПД = PD
И.M.БУШEBЬ
(I.M.BUSHEV)
H314
|
|
SPB FWAH 1819
|
314
post
(hemp) |
Portable Antiquities Scheme
NMS-A5FFF2 Norfolk |
IDS
1576 |
 |
ЛД = LD
A.ТАМИЛИН
(A.TAMILIN)
H.7 |
 |
NP
BCI 12Н
1796
|
7
post
(flax) |
eBay Ruthin North Wales
|
IDS 1577 |
 |
ЛД = LD
Я.KOЗЛOBЬ
(Ya.KOZLOV) H58
|
 |
NP
BCI12K
1796 |
58
post (flax) |
eBay Ruthin North Wales |
IDS 1578 |
 |
ЛД = LD
Я.KOЗЛOBЬ
(Ya.KOZLOV) H58
|
 |
NP
MM12H
179? |
58
post (flax) |
eBay Ruthin North Wales |
IDS
1579 |
 |
ПД = PD
И.ШЕРАПО: (I.SHERAPOV) H258
|
|
SPB IRRH 1786
|
258
post
(hemp) |
J.T East Hampshire S.E.England |
IDS 1580 |
 |
ЛД = LD
С.УЛЬЯНОВЪ (S.UL'YANOV) H10
|
 |
NP
AP12H
179? |
10
post (flax) |
eBay Ruthin North Wales |
IDS
1581 |
 |
ЛД = LD
T:БAБOHИH(Б) (T.BABONIN)
H76 |
 |
NP
ECI2H
1798 |
76 post
(flax) |
eBay Ruthin North Wales |
IDS
1582 |
 |
ЛД = LD
Е.ИВАНОВЪ (E.IVANOV) H75 |
 |
NP
МѲI2H
1794 |
75 post
(flax) |
eBay Ruthin North Wales |
IDS
1583 |
 |
RIGA |
 |
KOTELLDA |
KOTELLDA |
eBay Latvia |
IDS 1583
KOTEL may be the Western Wall or Wailing Wall of Solomon's Temple in the
city of Jerusalem .. there were certainly many Jews in Riga in the 18th/19th century. |
IDS
1584 |
 |
Crossed Keys oval bows suggest early18th/late 19th century |
 |
Ш П З |
Sh P Z |
eBay Latvia |
IDS
1585 |
 |
Г.ЛАНДРИНЪ / ФАБ.
(G.LANDRIN / FABRICTOR) КОНФЕКТЪ
/ СПБ
(of CANDIES in St.Petersburg) |
 |
G.LANDRIN FABRIQ BONBONS ST.PRG |
G.LANDRIN FABRICATOR of CANDIES in St.Petersburg |
Daniil Galitski |
IDS
1586 |
 |
ДД = DD
TPEKIHЬ (TREKIN) H307 |
 |
N:P
CC12H 1769
|
307
post
(flax) |
eBay Banbury |
IDS
1587 |
 |
K = Kronstadt
ИB:COMPOBA
(IV.SOMROVA) |
 |
I I
anchor
C
( I I
anchor
S
) |
Jim Solas
Kirkcaldy
Fife |
this name
is female |
IDS
1588 |
 |
БОГЪ И МOE
ПРАВО *1635*
+ crossed keys
(GOD AND MY
RIGHT) |
 |
ДВОЙНОЙ
PИЖCKIИ
БAЛЬЗAMЪ |
DOUBLE
RIGA
BALSAM |
eBay Latvia
|
IDS
1 589 |
 |
+
Crossed Keys
2 |
 |
blank |
Riga
(2nd Grade flax) |
Jim Solas
Kirkcaldy
Fife |
IDS
1 590 |
|
X
Crossed Keys
1 |
 |
blank |
Riga
(1st Grade flax) |
Jim Solas
Kirkcaldy
Fife |
IDS
1591 |
 |
ЛД = LD
C:ГУPOBЬ
(S.GUROV)
H30 |
 |
SPB
NP._2
I.B.
1830 |
30 post
(flax) |
Jim Solas
Kirkcaldy
Fife |
IDS
1592 |
 |
ЛД = LD
B.БEЛИKOBЪ
(V.BELIKOV)
H37 |
 |
SPB
NP._2
W.H.
1835 |
37 post
(flax) |
Jim Solas
Kirkcaldy
Fife |
IDS 1593 |
 |
ЛД = LD K.MEPKУЛOB(K.MERKULOV) H28 |
 |
NP AБ12H 1810 |
28
post
(flax) |
eBay Ruthin North Wales
|
IDS
1594 |
 |
ЛД = LD
Г.TAPAБУKИHЬ
(G.TARABUKIN)
H4 |
 |
NP
IБ12K
1804 |
4
post (flax) |
eBay Ruthin North Wales
|
IDS
1 595 |
 |
? (+
or x)
Crossed Keys ?
(1,2 or 3) |
 |
blank |
Riga
(? Grade flax) |
Jim Solas
Kirkcaldy
Fife |
IDS
1 596 |
 |
+
Crossed Keys ? (1,2 or 3) |
 |
blank |
Riga
(? Grade flax) |
Jim Solas
Kirkcaldy
Fife |
IDS
1597 |
 |
ПД = PD
B.ПАГАНОВЬ
(V.PAGANOV) H323
|
 |
SPB
АБРН 1820 |
323 post (pass hemp) |
Gerry Chandler
Stoney Stratton
East Somerset |
IDS
1598 |
 |
(АРХ ПОРТ)
ДeCЯT (m)
АНД. ВЕШНЯКОВЪ
(AND. VESHNYAKOV)
|
 |
APX.БP
KPOHЪ
2 COPTЪ
M.K.
1849 |
ARKH.BR
KRON (Crown)
2nd
SORT (flax)
M.K.
1849 |
Gerry Chandler
Stoney Stratton
East Somerset |
IDS 1598
(ДeCЯT)
In Old Russian a T may have 3 vertical
lines making it look
more like an M
..
|
IDS
1599 |
 |
РИГСК.ТА.ОТ.ТО
1804
Ю bell T |
 |
usually blank |
- |
William T Spencer
Tattenhall
Cheshire |
IDS 1599 РИГСК.ТА.ОТ.ТО is РИГСК
(Riga) TAMOЖHЯ (Customs)
OTPACЛЬ (Department)
TOBAP (Goods)
The bell is confirmation of
1804, The symbol
is a substitute for the missing State Arms Customs Logo when the reverse is blank..
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